Diaconate Candidates taught: Jesus “became a sinner”

Here is a post taken directly from Tim Rohr’s JungleWatch blog. ( http://www.junglewatch.info/2014/09/diaconate-candidates-taught-jesus.html#comment-form)

In the recording below, a theology professor, Fr. Angelo Veraldi, from Italy, instructs permanent deacon candidates in Guam that “Jesus became a sinner.”  This is no joke!  A transcript of the recording follows.


The following is a transcript of this recording [above].  You will note the extreme difficulty in understanding right from the beginning (poor candidates), but it gets worse.

FR. VERALDI: …very action, action of liturgy.  Liturgical action.  Also when we recite the psalms by ourself, because as a church we pray for everybody.  And then there is Jesus Christ inside, inside of the psalms.  Psalms must be referred to, to Jesus Christ.  Its a prefiguration.  He experienced, he experienced the psalms before our, ourself.  Before me and before you, Jesus Christ experience the psalm.  He experience the love of God, the Father.
 He experienced the forgiveness of the Father, because he was a sinner.  He became a sinner.  Willing, not because he was imposed, because he was a sinner, willingly, willing a sinner.
Okay. Press pause. Let’s review.  This man, be he priest, deacon, or layman, is speaking to a class of candidates aspiring to the permanent diaconate. No one can officially speak or teach on the Catholic faith without the permission of the Archbishop. Thus this person, whoever he may be, is teaching our diaconate candidates under the official seal of approval of the Archbishop,and he is teaching that Jesus is a sinner!!!


When I first heard this, I thought he had a language problem and was really trying to allude to what Paul says in 2 Cor 5:21: “For our sake he made him to be sin who did not know sin, so that we might become the righteousness of God in him.” Of course, we know that Christ did not become a sinner, but rather took on the sin of the world and was treated as a sinner for our salvation. 


Let us say that it IS a “language problem” and he was not intentionally teaching that Jesus himself was a sinner like us. We then must ask: WHAT is this person doing instructing diaconate candidates (and maybe priest candidates too) when he has such a poor command of the language that his instruction is a best confusing and at worst heretical? 
Let’s take this a bit further. Our Archbishop likes to tout all the different countries that the seminarians at RMS are from. However, all those different countries mean “all those different languages”, and when the instructors are just as diverse, how does any real learning go on at all? 
Because of the RMS “product” we are now seeing in our parishes – the barely understandable language and the even less understandable content – many have begun to ask this question. And here we see, or hear, actually, a “professor” of some sort, teaching men studying for the diaconate, that Christ became a sinner!
But it’s actually worse because in fact it is NOT a language problem. He meant what he said because he begins by telling us that Jesus “experienced the forgiveness of the Father.” There is no mistaking this. The professor clearly believes that Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, became a sinner and that God the Father forgave him. 
Houston, we have a problem. (Or should we say ROME!)
The rest is just as messy, but we will come back with comments on this later. Press play. 

FR. VERALDI: In the mass many times we say, has he approach his passion.  Willingly accepting.  Accepting.  He took the sins away, all the sins away.  Then, the time of liturgy is not just to choose some hour and go to the church.  The time of the liturgy is — could be always and everywhere.  When we spend some, some, some moments praying the liturgy of the Hour, or we pray — the Lord’s we pray — in the Eucharist, for example.  The time is everywhere.  Everywhere.  Any time is good for do liturgy.  Any time.  I don’t do liturgy — I repeat — I don’t do liturgy only when I go to celebrate mass; no. Also in my room I do liturgy.  The time — I repeat — don’t be a worry about why you repetition because Roman says, “Repetita *juvant.”  The things which you repeat are fruitful.  Are fruitful.  (Chuckled) 

Okay.  And in the time of liturgy we do *cult.  Cult means honor, worship.  Worship.  We do worship.  To whom?  To God, of course.
If we go to the Old Testament, we see the prophets.  What were they doing?  Doing?  They were choosing time to preach the word of God and ask the people to come down to renew themselves.  And at what time?  Doesn’t matter.  What time?  Doesn’t matter. They are free from the slavery; they have to do some liturgy.  They are in the — in the side they do liturgy, because they remember.  Remember.  Remember God.  And fortunately, the Hebrew in exile, in exile, they didn’t live the *cult of Yahweh.  No.  Fortunate.  Fortunate.  We sometimes, we, when we are sick, for example, we don’t pray.  We are lazy.  Or we have something to do.  I have to go visit the person.  I have to go to do the work.  And then we forget liturgy.  We forget prayer.  Forget prayer.  But, what does it happen?  Because we are human being.  We are not angels.  We are not saints, already.  Already.  Perhaps somebody of you saint already.  (Chuckled)  Perhaps.
No, I’m — I’m not saint already.  I’m not saint.  I wait to be ______, to be ______.
I said to this morning, celebrating mass, we become happy, or you become saint when we observe the Lord.  When we observe the Lord we become saint.  But, what happened?  There’s always devity.  Devity.
UNKNOWN:  Devil?
UNKNOWN:  Devil?
FR. VERALDI:  Devil.
UNKNOWN:  Diablo.
FR. VERALDI:  Diabolus, satan.  He always there.  He’s always there.  And he wants me to observe his law.  But I have to observe the law of God.  And the law of God is not an imposition.  Many times all the Christian think that the law of God is an imposition.  Obligation.  No!  No.  No.  You should put it in your mind: it’s not an obligation.  Because God says also, if you observe my law you will become saint.  You will become happy.  If you — if you.  And then many times, of course, God says observe entirely as you command to your children.  Observe that.  “Don’t do that!  Do that!”
“What have I to do that?”
“Because I am your father.”
And then I give you my will.  My will is a law.  The law of God is will of God.  What is the will of God?  Love.  Love.  He loves me and you, when he commands me and you to observe his law.  It’s not a rule.  The law of God is not a rule.  It’s an expression to do something good.  Could be an imposition.  I go on the road and then I saw the light, traffic light, red.  Then I — I would say, no, I don’t stop.  What happen?  What happen if I don’t stop?
UNKNOWN:  You get killed.
UNKNOWN:  Accident.
FR. VERALDI:  Accident.  Perhaps accident.  Then there is a green.  You do, you do pass.  The same is the law of God.  It tells me how can I behavior myself.  And the behavior should be good, not bad.  Paul was feeling this, this battle between him and the Lord.  Was feeling.  He said, me know why.  I wanted to do good thing; I do bad thing.  Then, we are the same as Paul; we are not stranger people.  Stranger people from Paul.  No, no, we are the same.
Then, the time to do liturgy is always and everywhere.  And don’t forget that.  Why?  Because we think, many times think that liturgy must be done in the church or in the chapel or in the room or in the powder room, or in that house where I go to celebrate mass.  No.  Everywhere.  Everywhere.  Many times I do pray on the plane when I fly.  Many times.
I tell you one fact.  I was once on the plane, and then I saw a Moslem people pulling out of his pocket their rosary, their rosary.  And then I said to myself, “Why am I not to do the same?”  I pull out my rosary and I started to say my rosary. (Laughed)  In front of him.  In front of him.  Because they think to be very, very faithful people.  No, they are faithful as us, as our same thing.  Faithful, the same.
And then I am called to do a ______.  Saying the rosary is not a liturgy.  Saying the rosary not liturgy.  Liturgy maximum could be blessing of the rite of funerals.  They are liturgy.  They are liturgy, but not rosary.  Not the procession.  I tell them, not the procession, not the _________ are not liturgy.
We can call them paraliturgy.  Paraliturgy.  Instead of real liturgy, they are this actions.  But they are not liturgy, because liturgy means action from Jesus Christ with the people, with his people.  This is the definition.
To glorify God and sanctify ourselves.  This is the liturgy, real liturgy.  And who sanctifies our self?  Who?  What sanctifies our self?  Sacrament.  Sacrament.  Eucharist, baptism, confirmation, matrimony, anointing to the sick.  All the sacraments give sanctification.  All.  Each one has got one some characteristic.  But is always sanctification, salvation.
In Italy, still now, the parents do baptize their children because they fear, they fear they grow up with — with legs like this.  *Clown legs, like this.  Or they dream bad dreams.  They do bad dreams, they say, Sicilian people, Sicilian people.  But it’s not for them.  I don’t do liturgy of the baptism for that purpose.  But I do the liturgy of the baptism for becoming Christian.
What does it mean Christian?  To enter your family above.  To experience eternal life.  What is eternal life?  I told you already.  What is eternal life?  You ask ________, (laughed), the oldest.  Full of wisdom.  The old people are full of wisdom. (Laughed)  What is eternal life?  Eh?  Which each can experience.  I — I say we have to experience yet.
UNKNOWN:  Salvation.
FR. VERALDI:  Huh?  Salvation?  But what is salvation?
UNKNOWN:  Love of God.
UNKNOWN:  Love of God.
FR. VERALDI:  Love!  Very good, very good, very good.  Love.  Eternal life consisting — do love, in do love.  God save me and you because he loves me and you.  He is giving me salvation through his love; not through my works, which sometimes are bad.  Sometimes I say — many times I’m bad.  Envy, *ill wish, selfishness, sensuality, laziness, indifferences.
FR. VERALDI:  Anger.  Hunger.  Hunger.
UNKNOWN:  Anger.
FR. VERALDI:  Anger.  Anger.  We got age. (Laughed) Otherwise we have — we have hunger, we are hungry.  Are you hungry or angry?  (Laughed)
UNKNOWN:  Sometimes at the same time.
FR. VERALDI:  At the same time.
The time, the time — I repeat — the time of liturgy we cannot have to go and _______ on the sea, on the pacific sea.  No.  Or in Guam, in the forest of Guam, no.  In Italy, no.  Everywhere.  Where I am, I can spend time, time for liturgy.  And liturgy must be done for you parents, for you fathers, must be done with your family.  Did you experience sometimes?  Because when I ask some men who is married, “Do you pray with your children?”  As it was a surprise.  Do you pray with your wife before going to bed?
Do you remember what did Isaac with his wife — Rebecca, no?  Rebecca? — it’s written in the bible: Before unite themselves they were going out of the bed, kneeling down, pray, and then unite.  (Laughed)  Yeah?  They were doing liturgy, of course.  They were doing liturgy, because they thought if we don’t — if we don’t do that we are not real Christian.  Real Christian believes that liturgy is what — is an action for Christian.
And then I repeat also the time we cannot have to go and search the time.  No.  Somebody’s walking, can pray, can do liturgy.  See?  If I pray with _______, I go liturgy.  Not every prayer, of course, is a liturgy, not every prayer.  Personal prayer not — Why?  Because the characteristic of liturgy is to — is dialogical.
UNKNOWN:  Dialogue.
FR. VERALDI:  Dialogue.  Is a dialogue.  A sense of characteristic of liturgy is dialogue.
UNKNOWN:  Dialogue with God, right?
FR. VERALDI:  Dialogue with God, or with the people.  With the people to God.  And that is a main characteristic of liturgy.
Some Christian — I would say many Christian want their children to be baptized privately.  No!  No.  Because baptism is not, is not a private thing.  Baptism is liturgy. And liturgy calls people.  Calls people.  Now, the church after the Vatican Second said it will be better to celebrate the various sacrament during the Eucharist, during the Eucharist.
But, what happened?  What happened? All the people were asking the priest, the parish priest, “Could you baptize my son during the mass?”  “Could you make our matrimony during the mass?”  Yeah.  And then as there were many asking, the church said stop, stop, stop.  Ask the permission to the Bishop.
Now, in my diocese, if you want to celebrate sacraments during the mass on Sunday, you have to ask the Bishop. Why?  Because there are many, they wanted.  And then the people, normal people, coming to mass were tired.  Every sacrament is a liturgy.  Every sacrament.  Even if you do penance, penance on the road going somewhere, yes, is liturgy, because God, Jesus Christ is here, is there.
UNKNOWN:  So, if a rosary is not liturgy, what other prayers are liturgy?  What prayers?
FR. VERALDI:  Private prayers are not liturgy.
UNKNOWN:  So, what prayer do I say?
FR. VERALDI:  Liturgy of the hour.  Liturgy of the hour is liturgical action.  Liturgical action.  Not private.  Privately I said, angelus Domini salve Maria is liturgy, no.
UNKNOWN:  So, are you saying that if I take my bible, do the night reading, by myself, in my room, by using the book, it is liturgy?
FR. VERALDI:  Liturgy.
UNKNOWN: But if I just go out, like you say, praying or saying the rosary by myself, or in the church, is not a liturgy?
FR. VERALDI:  No.  It’s not a liturgy.
UNKNOWN:  And what is the reason for that, Father?  Why is it that, because I use the book it becomes liturgy?
FR. VERALDI:  No, not because I use the book.  I can say the psalms mentally.  I can say it’s liturgy.  Because Jesus Christ.
UNKNOWN:  For saying the psalm in your own mind it becomes liturgy as well?
FR. VERALDI:  Of course, because the psalms are prefiguration of Jesus Christ.  They call Jesus Christ.  Otherwise, we have no liturgy.  Same Eucharist, no.  No?  We have _____ liturgy.
UNKNOWN:  Can I also summarize that the liturgy of the hour is being said all over the world, and at no time is it not being said.  And that’s why when you’re saying it by yourself, you’re saying it with the community of the world.
FR. VERALDI:  Yeah, of course.  Also Eucharist is being celebrated all over the world, at all time.  All time, for ______ hour, no?
We are here in nine hour before Europe, or something.  And then we are celebrating — I celebrated this morning, the Eucharist at 8:00.  8:00 was there 11:00, before 11:00.  And then could be said that liturgy — Eucharist especially — Eucharist is celebrated all the over the world, at all time, __________ time.
Jesus Christ, when big sacrifice was intelligent.  Was intelligent.  He knew that his sacrifice was celebrated all over the world at all time!  At all time!  The sacrifice in the temple, the temple, is a Jerusalem temple, was said just on that hour.  On that hour only.  The truth of sacrifice of Jesus, the Eucharist, is wonderful.  Wonderful.  Because we can have the fruit from the liturgy at any time!  At any time!  When we are sleeping we can receive, yes, because there are many other communities celebrating.  (Laughed)  Huh?
UNKNOWN:  So, devotion, liturgy and paraliturgy, those are like — those are not liturgical?
FR. VERALDI:  No, no, no.  Devotions are not liturgical action.  No.  No, no.  Devotions to Saint Patrick, we are doing the novena of Saint Patrick.  It’s not a liturgy.  Not a liturgy.  Unless it is included in Eucharist it becomes liturgy.
To go to Lourdes, to go to Fatima, to go to Medjugorje, is a liturgy?  No, it’s not liturgy.  Not liturgy.  Is a devotion.  If I gather with the other people, celebrating mass is a liturgy, real liturgy.  But not when I go to the sanctuaries.
UNKNOWN: So, Father, even if we’re gathered as a group and praying, if it’s not a mass it’s not considered liturgy?
FR. VERALDI:  But should we, the group, should be done — how can I say? — some which we can say, we can say, here is Jesus Christ doing this prayer with us.  I repeat, the rosary is not a liturgy.  Not a liturgy.  Adoration to the sacrament is not a liturgy.  Not a real liturgy.  But we have to do.  We have to do.  Not because it’s imposed, but because we need also private prayer.  We need.
Alfredo was saying to the seminarian, “Don’t pray only when you come to a Eucharist or when you come for the little _______.  Pray by yourself.  Yourself, yes, of course.
UNKNOWN:  Is benediction part of liturgy?
FR. VERALDI:  It’s not.
UNKNOWN:  But it’s Christ.
FR. VERALDI:  The blessing, yes.  The blessing, yes, but not the adoration, not —  something like that.
UNKNOWN:  But it doesn’t degrade, it’s not a degradation.  The devotion is not a degradation, no?
UNKNOWN:  It has valid effects?
FR. VERALDI:  Oh, blessing, yes, because it’s God who blesses us.  It’s God.  Jesus Christ blesses us.  And he is with me and with you, with the people.
Funeral, I said before, the rite of funeral is __________.
Okay.  We can go on, or take a break.
Tags:  Neocatechumenal, Neocatecumenal, Kiko Arguello, problems, problemas

One thought on “Diaconate Candidates taught: Jesus “became a sinner”

  1. This sounds like the ramblings of a madman. How can men who wish to be deacons or priests sit through such nonsense and resist the urge to get up and leave? More worrisome is that some of them may not take these ramblings as nonsense. My 10-year old niece can do a better job than this priest just from what she learns in CCD classes.

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